WikiProject Automobiles
Intro
Under the best 'Tracfone ringtones be bold' tradition of Wikipedia I'm going to try and kick-start this project. Editing Adore Kym automobile, Crazy frog ringtone hot hatch and Adore Summer The effect of the automobile on the United States/The effect of the automobile... has attracted enough comments for me to know I'm not the only one with an interest in cars.
I'm fairly new to editing the Wikipedia, although I've floated around long enough to know a little about what is here and what isn't. I would appreciate any guidance from more senior Wikipedians on how to set up a WikiProject - as yet there seems to be no article about this.
I know there are petrolheads and vehicle connoisseurs out there - please do put your names down and we'll try to get some good stuff going.
Thanks! Cricket ringtones Akadruid/akaDruid 15:57, 26 Feb 2004
Announcement?
I noticed other Wikiprojects have announced their start on the announcement page. My boldness doesn't extend as far as editing that page - I would appreciate some guidance on that e.g. is there a announcements/submissions or similar page?
Thanks! Adore Alexis Akadruid/akaDruid 16:51, 26 Feb 2004
Possible 'To Do' List
There are a huge number of potential things to do in this project. Here are some ideas I've had to get started with:
*Design a layout for pages covering individual vehicles, and select and example page showing the layout well. We need a boiler plate text, something along the lines of 'This is part of the ''automobile'' series', plus navigational links etc. Look at the LG ringtones WikiProject Ships/ships and Amber Teen WikiProject Aircraft/aircraft projects for more on this.
*Improve navigation between vehicle pages, manufacturers pages and header pages. Samsung ringtone Car classification needs work. Alison 18 List of automobile manufacturers might be a good starting point for some work.
*Fill in some of the gaps. There are some very major missing articles, of the top of my head: Cingular Ringtones Caterham, blacks humbled Wolseley, things his Talbot, divorced luciano De Tomaso, crime poverty Isuzu. The list of important missing vehicles is huge too.
*Give advice on naming schemes for car makers and models.
I've made a quick start on a layout, see elsewhere moussaoui Jaguar E-type. white cheddar Akadruid/akaDruid 12:03, 1 Mar 2004
* I moved the suggested new layout to chambord heads WikiProject_Automobiles/Layouts//Layouts the spans Akadruid/akaDruid 10:15, 2 Mar 2004
Here's a stub To-Do list for you guys... See alternately sort Tag: Automobile_stubs. It's surprising really, the number of stubs you guys have now mark up to 300+ in two months time... Just thought to drop a note. You guys seem to have a daunting task ahead. grueling theater Allyunion/league owners User:Allyunion/AllyUnion trees building User Talk:Allyunion/(Talk) 08:50, 5 Sep 2004
"Premier Automotive Group"
I added trouble painting Premier Automotive Group/"Premier Automotive Group" to Wikipedia. The first sentence is: "Ford Motor Company owns the Premier Automotive Group (PAG), which is presumably a self-sufficient company that combines the business operations of Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo."
I'm not sure this is accurate; if not, perhaps a WikiProject Automobiles member could re-write it. —censure president Vespristiano/Vespristiano 05:10, 2004 Mar 25
I've done some work on the article. In my understanding, the PAG is a division of Ford, rather than a company in its own right. Additionally, someone had added yorker but Lincoln to the list of brands in the PAG - this is not correct. Ford does sell cars under the Lincoln brand, but does not consider them part of the PAG. with dogs Akadruid/akaDruid 10:57, 25 Mar 2004
Lincoln was actually part of the PAG at its inception. Changes in personnel and marketing strategy (and maybe some cost-cutting) later caused it to be reorganized back into the Ford/Mercury operation. Here's an article at Ward's Auto Reports that lays out the original http://wdb.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_premier_automotive_group/. contemporary sensibility RivGuySC/RivGuySC 06:25, 29 Mar 2004
Ah, interesting. I didn't know that! genre however Akadruid/akaDruid 09:54, 29 Mar 2004
Ward's article was correct at the time. Lincoln was pulled out of PAG primarily because of "brand-fit" issues... PAG is former independent companies, euro themed, with a whole different core customer base than Lincoln. PAG is more of an organizational subdivision like how the lines are drawn on the org chart than an independent organization. daguerreotypes and Pmeisel/Pmeisel 02:29, 2 Jan 2005
get time Ford Capri
Hi folks, I've set down a basic page on the classic Capri and made an assumption (based on a strong feeling) that the Capri was based on the Ford Cortina of the time. Can anybody confirm or deny this? I've struggled to find evidence on the web but I'm sure I read something along these lines in the motoring press some time ago. This is worth checking as it was me who assumed Lincoln was still in PAG and was proven wrong!! Thanks. Prichardson/Pete Richardson 12:54, 6 Apr 2004
:I can't see anything about this, I would just leave it there until someone proves you right or wrong! Akadruid/akaDruid 10:39, 8 Apr 2004
:Yes, I think I can confirm the Capri's origins. ''Collectible Automobile'' for June 2002 has the car's history as a feature article. It says that Ford was primarily looking to recreate the Mustang's success in a model suited to the European market: "Just as the Mustang had been born of the Falcon platform, a similarly utilitarian vehicle was needed to act as the basis for the European version...Such a car was available in the popular Cortina, produced by Ford of England since the autumn of 1962." RivGuySC/RivGuySC 05:39, 12 Apr 2004
Can't cite a specific source but remember from the time that the Capri was a sporty version of the Cortina. I probably read it in 1960s era Road & Track magazine Pmeisel/Pmeisel 02:31, 2 Jan 2005
Default Layouts
Another idea in the pot: how about a standard data box for trim levels? Also (as I've mentioned elsewhere) it wouldn't hurt to have layouts for engine specs. I may knock up something for the Ford Mondeo page to see what you guys think. Prichardson/Pete Richardson 14:29, 7 Apr 2004
:Sounds good to me. —Vespristiano/Vespristiano 22:21, 2004 Apr 7
::Yup. BTW, Ford Mondeo is looking pretty good. This might be a candidate for the example page for WikiProject Automobiles. Akadruid/akaDruid 10:39, 8 Apr 2004
:Oh, yeah, Pete, that Mondeo article is way slick. But tell us how you did itdid you have to hand-code the table? (Ugh!) Or is it possible to export one from FrontPage or similar software? I haven't really figured out how HTML relates to Wikipedia, I'm afraid. RivGuySC/RivGuySC 05:24, 11 Apr 2004
::I converted the table to the newer Wiki code for tables, which is a little more readable (in my opinion) than HTML. I think the visual appearance could be improved a little, possibly; also, we need for many (all?) cars to have both metric and Imperial measurements. Morven/—Morven 09:08, 12 Apr 2004
:::Nice work! I updated the example page to use the Ford Mondeo article - the new table code is better and it's a better example article than VW Golf. Akadruid/akaDruid 10:27, 14 Apr 2004
Proposed naming convention
I put up a proposed automobile article naming convention in WikiProject Automobiles/Proposed naming convention - please look at it and comment/alter, thanks! Morven/—Morven 23:33, 24 May 2004
David Burgess Wise's Encyclopedia
I have a copy of David Burgess Wise's ''The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Automobiles'' that I've been regurgitating (not copying outright, mind you); thus far, I'm about three-quarters of the way through the A's. The book is 12 years out of date, but it's a very good resource for many old, forgotten marques. While it's concerned more with the technical side of various cars, I think it's a good start. And it has good capsule histories of many of the major makes, including Armstrong-Siddeley (which article I added this afternoon) and Panhard & Levassor (which appears to have no article whatsoever - rather shocking considering this company's importance).
I'm going to be continuing with the thing for as long as I can; I hope it will be of some assistance.
Boccherini's Guitar/Boccherini's Guitar 01:06, 26 Jul 2004
:Good stuff! I'm glad you're going to be careful about copyright - best to make sure that no wording is similar to the book, if you can. And please, break it into paragraphs a bit more than you're doing I went to Armstrong-Siddeley and did just that. We need at least a starter article on vast numbers of historic marques. Morven/—Morven 08:18, Jul 26, 2004
::We also need a category (other than "Automobiles") for historic marques. In fact, I think we should have very few articles in the category to make it easier to navigate! Especially historic (as in no-longer-produced) marques should go in a subcategory, while current marques (those that people are most likely to be interested in?) can go in the first level of Automobiles. Perhaps "Historic Automobiles" or "Historic Automobile Marques"? Or maybe even "Pre-War Automobiles" and "Post-War Automobiles" to follow the field's standard nomenclature? Sfoskett/Sfoskett 12:05, 26 Jul 2004
:::If you don't mind, I shall be putting further marques in the "automobile" category for the moment, pending a decision as to what kind of organization historic marques need. I can always go through the list and change designations. A lot of them need to be redesignated as "auto-stubs", too.Boccherini's Guitar/Boccherini's Guitar 20:52, 26 Jul 2004
OK - I just went on vacation for a week and a half, and got back last night. I went to see the Frick Collection outside of Pittsburgh, which has a nice little auto museum; I got a few pictures for some of the harder-to-find historic marques (such as American Bantam) of which they had examples on display. I should like to upload these for insertion into the articles in question; would there be any problems with this?207.69.137.137/207.69.137.137 19:16, 9 Aug 2004
:Problems? Quite the opposite - this is exactly what we want, car articles are always better with photos. Pictures really are worth a thousand words in this case! Go for it. Akadruid/akaDruid (User talk:Akadruid/Talk) 11:38, 10 Aug 2004
New stuff
I just wanted to mention the following fun "list of..." pages. More input, as always, is appreciated!
* List of automotive superlatives
* List of automobile model and marque oddities
Enjoy! Sfoskett/SFoskett 13:35, Sep 14, 2004
:Very cool! Just goes how many cool little corners of the WP there are. I'm gonna start dropping some edits on the first one I feel. Akadruid/akaDruid 14:25, 6 Oct 2004
New subpage
I'd like to create a new subpage talking about things like typography conventions (cc versus ml, ft.lbf, , and so on) within automobile articles. thoughts? Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:54, Oct 4, 2004
:I'm for itwould be good to get consistency. I know I've been doing cm³ instead of cc; we've chatted about L elsewhere; and I have a tiny problem with , in that while it's a good way to keep number and unit together, on some TrueType fonts the space is twice as large as the regular one. Stombs/Stombs 23:37, Jan 1, 2005
:: OK, let's have at it! WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions Sfoskett/SFoskett 23:56, Jan 1, 2005
:::Great, see you there! Stombs/Stombs 23:59, Jan 1, 2005
Timelines
Whaddya folks think of these?
Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:09, Oct 5, 2004
:Very nice; good work. SamH/SamH 19:32, 5 Oct 2004
:Yes, quite interesting & creative. RivGuySC/RivGuySC 21:13, 5 Oct 2004
:I like 'em! Akadruid/akaDruid 14:23, 6 Oct 2004
::Great, SFoskett! Also I like your use of the correct codes. Stombs/Stombs 11:23, Oct 26, 2004
Article needing help
We usually have surprisingly little mangled prose in the car articles. However, this one seems to have been machine-translated from Old High Martian: Chevrolet Citation. I could improve itthat wouldn't be hard!but it would be better if somebody that knows the model could tear into it. I'm weak on compacts. RivGuySC/RivGuySC 02:06, 7 Oct 2004
Sports cars and supercars
We've been having a little discussion over at Talk:Honda NSX and Talk:Sports car about what is and isn't a sports car/super car. I decided to put it to a straw poll. Please take a moment to "vote" at the following articles:
* Talk:Chevrolet Corvette
* Talk:Ford Mustang
* Talk:Honda NSX
* Talk:Lamborghini Murcielago
* Talk:Mazda Miata
* Talk:Toyota MR2
Thank you. Sfoskett/SFoskett 13:58, Oct 10, 2004
More cars to categorize:
* Talk:Saab 99
* Talk:Saab 9-3
* Talk:Saab 9-2X
Thanks! Sfoskett/SFoskett 12:48, Oct 11, 2004
The mysterious page rewriter
I've just reverted yet another rewritten car page from our mysterious page. We have to think of some way of reaching this person and trying to help them become a more productive member of the community. I have an idea:
I'd like to place a note in HTML comments at the top of some pages likely to be replaced by this person. The note would ask them to please create an account and join this project instead of merely rewriting entire pages. What do you all think of this idea? Sfoskett/SFoskett 01:06, Oct 18, 2004
:Sounds good to me. (I'll be honest, though: I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. Would you be kind enough to elaborate on what the problem is?) —Vespristiano/Vespristiano 23:05, 20 Oct 2004
::I think SFoskett is referring to a mystery writer whose IP begins with 213.122; the latest one seems to be 213.122.196.51. I agree with SFoskett but wonder if we can ever track this person down since the IP seems to change each time (he's probably on a dial-up). If we can find him, then I hope we can persuade him to sign up. His latest changes at General Motors Astra were factually incorrect or POV-based, which I've reverted. Stombs/Stombs 23:16, Jan 1, 2005
:::I've begun posting comments at the IP addresses that he's used and that I can locate. He does appear to be British, based on his contributions. Stombs/Stombs 00:16, Jan 2, 2005
::::BTW seems other Wikipedians have had problems with a user doing wholesale replacements and: what a coincidence! His IP begins also with 213.122. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search?ns2=1&ns3=1&ns9=1&ns11=1&search=213.122&searchx=Search. One of them refers to a 11- or 12-year-old by the name of Michael James Patefield. Others refer to Wiltshire. This same user also wiped the contents at Communist Party of Great Britain with his own version, which has the same tone as some of the stuff he has been damaging automobile pages with. It will pay to keen an eye on this IP sequence. Stombs/Stombs 07:42, Jan 6, 2005
:::::Is this linked to the mysterious overwrites I picked up a while back? I found several, and started listed them on Akadruid/overwrites because I thought they were copy-vio. I've not been watching my watchlist so closely recently, so I've not seen any for a while. User:Akadruid/akaDruid 11:56, 10 Jan 2005
:::::Forgot to say, a lot of them were done by IP 213.122.xxx.xxx Akadruid/akaDruid 11:58, 10 Jan 2005
::::::Hi akaDruid: I suspect so, yes. The Communist Party one I referred to was identical in behaviour: taking an existing page and overwriting the whole lot. He's still at it. Stombs/Stombs 09:06, Jan 11, 2005
He's back! Now at 81.131.76.208 so he must have gotten a new ISP or must be sitting in a coffee shop... The same MO with the "MK1" junk and UK-centric POV writing style. User:Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:20, Jan 21, 2005
:Thanks for the heads-up, SFoskettI'll keep an eye out as well. Stombs/Stombs 10:33, Jan 22, 2005
::Just a tiny note: both 213.122.x.x and 81.131.76.208 are BT addresses, in the UK, which supports the theory these are the same user. Stombs/Stombs 11:40, Jan 22, 2005
American bias on world cars
I've edited the Mazda3 page because it neglected European and Japanese versions of the cars. American bias (and to a lesser extent, British bias) seems to be a problem affecting articles on cars that originated in places outside North America. This is mainly due to lack of knowledge and lack of research, and affects mostly available engine options and renaming for different markets. British bias happens on some continental models, but to a lesser extent.
Please use these websites on research about http://www.autoindex.org and http://www.histomobile.com automobiles. They're not complete, and mainly refer to technical specifications, but they're not bad. Pc13/Pc13 14:50, 27 Dec 2004
:Whatever bias there is (and I know it is there, witness Toyota Corolla) is purely unintentional. Please accept my invitation to continue correcting our Yank and Brit oversights! I've started separate USA sections on some articles (see Mazda Familia and Mazda RX-4 for examples) to show what is local and what is worldwide. I try to research, but don't always succeed. Sfoskett/SFoskett 15:00, Dec 27, 2004
:: No problem, I didn't think the bias was intentional. It just make things incomplete rather than wrong, and since I'm interested in market specificity in the automotive world (something I may want to add List of automobile model and marque oddities/here in the future), I tend to notice these things. And since I believe the English Wikipedia is more likely to attract visitors from non-native English speakers, I'd rather keep the automotive articles as international as possible.
:: On that note, I'd like to propose the use of this format for horsepower, I've already started using it:
::* ECE/DIN: 1 kW (1.36 bhp DIN)
::* SAE: 1kW (1.34 bhp SAE)
::* JIS: 1kW (1.36 bhp JIS) Pc13/Pc13 15:18, 27 Dec 2004
:::I do think some of the problem is not intent, but often the research itself is biased (Googling a lot of models results usually in US pages first). I'm sure between us all we'll manage to internationalize Wikipedia. My view, and I already see it employed on a lot of pages, especially SFoskett's Mazda edits, is that the country of origin information should be the "base" and any export market information is "derivative". Stombs/Stombs 23:27, Jan 1, 2005
::::The world car and derivative issue is getting somewhat more difficult to decipher as platforms morph and proliferate across brands of different nationalities owned by the same parent. Some Mazdas are brand-engineered Fords, and some Fords brand engineered Mazdas, just to cite an easy one. Pmeisel/Pmeisel 01:01, 8 Jan 2005
:::::If I understand this correctly, may I suggest that date of release might be a way around this? This is slightly off-topic, but when I wrote the BMC 1100 and 1300 pages, I began with the Morris 1100 as the "main" page, since it was released nearly a year before the Austin equivalent. With the Landcrab, I did the Austin 1800 page first. But the lineage of Fords and Mazdas might help, for they could warrant separate pages. There are sufficient differences between the Mazda 323 and the Ford Laser, for instancenotably where each model "went" and how their histories developed. I do agree it is tricky: the Mazda B-Series is now two very different vehicles, one engineered by Ford for North America, and one engineered by Mazda elsewhere, and on such pages it may make sense to have both conventions depending on the model being discussed. Stombs/Stombs 07:13, Jan 8, 2005
=British bias on European cars?=
Related to the above: any thoughts on the Opel Speedster and Vauxhall VX 220? I think of them as Opels, but they are made in England, so it's a fair call that the Vauxhall page leadsthen, the same argument could be levelled at various Luton- and Ellesmore Port-built Opels. I would also like to raise the issue of the Simca 1307 and 1308, and the Chrysler Alpine. I had redirected the Alpine page to the Simca, as that car was released first and is known as that in more countries, but I notice that someone else had changed this so that Chrysler Alpine became the lead page again. Thoughts are welcome as I believe this is another sign of British bias. Should Vauxhall VX 220 be changed, and should Simca 1307 be the page on which Alpine data reside? Stombs/Stombs 09:53, Jan 9, 2005
: There is some, but it's more problematic on non-British marques, including Renault and Peugeot. As for the Chrysler Europe/Simca/Rootes Group models problem, I suggest the Sunbeeam Alpine/Chrysler Alpine and Talbot 1510 pages should redirect to the Simca 1307, while the Sunbeam TI/Talbot Sunbeam should redirect to Chrysler Sunbeam. About GM Europe products, it's more complicated especially considering the Kadett/Astra relationship, but I'd prefer to see every new Vauxhall since 1981 redirect to its Opel equivalent. Of course, British nomenclature should be obligatory addressed, when different. Pc13/Pc13 19:16, 9 Jan 2005
::I'd rather see other names be stubs rather than redirects. For one thing, there is often some difference in looks, and some history unique to that version. I do agree that one version generally should contain the mass of information, however, rather than duplicating it. This should either be the original model OR the most produced, in cases where the original model is obscure and was unsuccessful. Obscurity in the English-speaking world is not, I think, sufficient cause to change this; someone might learn something.
::I favor stubs especially so that the reader gets instantly the information that is relevant to what they were looking for, rather than being redirected to a page that at first doesn't seem like the right one. I think it's better that each version gets a short page along the lines of
:::The '''Chrysler Alpine''' was a derivative of the Simca 1307, sold in the United Kingdom between ''xxxx'' and ''xxxx''. Differences from the Simca include ...
::and possibly with explicit text of 'See the Simca 1307 page for more information.' Morven/—Morven 13:29, Jan 10, 2005
:::I like your idea, Pc13, because it's quite logical: Chrysler UK was responsible for the Sunbeam and Chrysler Sunbeam is where it should reside; the Simca 1307 would be a more logical place for the majority of the information. Sfoskett and I are both keen on the Opel pages being the main ones for post-1981 VauxhallsI would make exceptions for the cases that Morven describes.
:::For instance, the Vauxhall Carlton deserves its own page for the Mark I "cat's eyes" models, and the Cavalier should retain its one, especially since the name has some "lineage" prior to the Mk III.
:::Morven, I've come to believe a stub could be sensible for Chrysler Alpine for the reason you stategood idea. Stombs/Stombs 09:12, Jan 11, 2005
User:82.42.151.164
Could fellow Wikipedians keep an eye on this user's edits? There are fictional models (e.g. Mazda Sandra, Holden Cera) and false info (diesels and 2·5 V6s being fitted to Argentinian Ford Sierras and Ford Meteors being European grey imports) being added. I will have a word to him/her. Stombs/Stombs 05:21, Jan 9, 2005
: Will do, although you didn't need to turn the Nissan Wingroad page into a redirect, it just needed more information. Taken care of, now. Pc13/Pc13 19:16, 9 Jan 2005
::My rationale was that they are really Sunny Wagons and it was better than a page from 82.42.151.164 in the interim, but I believe your solution is better, since there were notable design differences with the Mk I Wingroads. Stombs/Stombs 09:20, Jan 11, 2005
:::Looks like that user is now Eastery6, judging from the edits. He created a page for a Mazda model that I've never heard of, the "Mazda Celtus", and uploaded :Image:Mazdaceltus1.jpg/a suspicious photo. I'd like a new contributor, but this looks like a bunch of bunk. User:Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:23, Jan 11, 2005
::::I've added Mazda Celtus to Votes for deletion/VfD. He's also been vandalizing pages (VW Golf and Ford Mondeo, linking the latter to a page for the British National Party, and saying the Ford Focus was badge-engineered as a Chevy) and added more fictional information to the Opel Vectra page. I think you're right about the user's identity as he has gone and edited the talk page for Eastery6, too. I have to hand it to him though: Chevrolet Avestra, Mazda Celtus and Holden Cera are nice names! Stombs/Stombs 08:27, Jan 12, 2005
:::::According to Eastery6's User page (the original version), the person's name is "Andrea Jackson", a name which matches a banned user from [http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-28,GGLD:en&q=site%3Adigitalspy%2Eco%2Euk+%22Andrea+Jackson%22+Digitalspy%2Euk] who talked about chavvy cars and other loverly topics there. User:Sfoskett/SFoskett 17:20, Jan 12, 2005
::::::Thanks, SFoskett: must be the same person as one edit to the Nissan Primera page was about its chav reputation. (S)he's at it again, mind: Isuzu Solar was added to the GM T platform page. Seeing if anyone's caught it and going there now Stombs/Stombs 21:49, Jan 12, 2005
This looks like a vandal we're going to have to ban. There is no "Nissan Exanto", and no 1.4L engine in the Netherlands. We should go through ALL this person's edits with a fine-tooth comb. It's a shame that someone would go through all this trouble just to vandalize some car articles. Sfoskett/SFoskett 22:11, Jan 12, 2005
:I agree with you, SFoskett. Just spent the last hour correcting info on Nissan Sunny and VW Golf engine choices, and a good part of yesterday on adding the Mazda Celtus to VfD, etc. I have checked most of Eastery6's "contributions" and spent some time on 82.42.151.164, but any double-checking is welcome. Stombs/Stombs 22:27, Jan 12, 2005
::There's a Easty2 from November 2004 that looks a bit dodgy, too, though I think we've managed to catch that user's edits. Maybe I'm being paranoid about the name's similarity to Eastery6. User:Stombs/Stombs 22:37, Jan 12, 2005
Apologies for my vandalism. I will confine them to the sandbox. I am fairly new to this Wikipedia thing. Advice would be appreciated.
Thank you for apologizing, and I am sure you would be a very productive member of Wikipedia. I would suggest, before making changes, to open a new tab or window in your browser and Googling info just to be sure. The correct things you have added are great: the images, some of the more obscure info (when accurate), so we'd love to see more of that. You obviously have a talent for writing and for research and when your facts are right, you're definitely one to be applauded for adding them.
Why not pop by Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles and meet some of the others working on automotive articles? I am sure they can provide additional advice, and I'm also sure they wouldn't mind hearing from you, too, since we have been quite concerned about the vandalism.
I am taking that advice now. Anyway, I will check my sources.
Sorry for the fictitious cars - I like creating new cars!! being the creative person that i am!
im not vandalising any more.
any advice, just post here.
Please don't ban me. I apologise. 82.42.151.164/82.42.151.164 14:13, Jan 14, 2005
:Fellow Wikipedians, I was the one in contact with 82.42.151.164 (or Eastery6?), and I believe the apology to be sincere. We do welcome you to Wikipedia, hope to have you as a productive member of our team, and I'm sure advice would be welcome. Stombs/Stombs 01:16, Jan 15, 2005
General Motors Astra
i have updated the General Motors Astra with details of the Opel Kadett.82.42.151.164/82.42.151.164 Jan 16, 2005
:Thank you. It might be an idea to chat about model-specific matters on that particular car's discussion page. I did notice your adding a 1.7 diesel, yet I think that was in the Opel Corsa in South Africa, not the Kadett or Astra, and edited accordingly. Maybe let me know on the Talk:General Motors Astra/Astra discussion page. I'll catch it there. Stombs/Stombs 10:44, Jan 17, 2005
Private imports
It's happened a few times on New Zealand-related pages, and it's a bit annoying. I vote we do not include vehicles privately imported, or those unofficially imported by used car dealers (grey imports). Exceptions should be made when the grey imports are significant and create a large following, or if they alter the official concessionaire's policy. Any thoughts? Stombs/Stombs 10:53, Jan 17, 2005
:What's the problem, exactly - what's the 'it' that's happened? You don't tell us. Morven/—Morven 19:16, Jan 19, 2005
::'It' is the inclusion of privately imported vehicles or those unofficially imported by used car dealers on a particular model's page. Stombs/Stombs 06:39, Jan 20, 2005
Hyundai experts?
Any Hyundai experts among us? I found a comment on the Toyota Corona page by a 150.204.50.38 which turned out to be bogus (''viz.'' that there was a Toyota Alexia), and noted this user's rather major entry on the Hyundai Elantra. I'm not that ''au fait'' with the model, but knowledgeable enough to know that 2001 certainly wasn't the launch date for the countries which called the older Lantra under the Elantra name (e.g. Canada). The writer lists UK models, and I shall be interested to know if they are correct. Corrections there are welcome. Stombs/Stombs 12:01, Jan 19, 2005
Sources of information: www.autoweek.nl for Netherlands, various UK car websites for England and www.consumerguide.com for USA cars. Hope this helps. Apologies for the vandalism. User:82.42.151.164/82.42.151.164 Jan 19, 2005
:Thank youI knew of these but I wasn't particularly passionate about the brand and probably wouldn't enjoy writing it! I might see to thisdepends how frustrated I get with the Elantra info as it currently stands. Stombs/Stombs 00:47, Jan 21, 2005
::OK, all done at Hyundai Avante and Hyundai Elantra, but both are stubbed. Stombs/Stombs 01:10, Jan 21, 2005
Hello & Help!
Hello-
Since I seem to have a great interest in American Automobiles, I thought I would drop in, if its OK. I'm hoping to get some help with an article that just posted to Wikipedia Mohs Automobile. Can some folks take a look at it and tell me what you think? user: stude62 user talk:stude62 04:00, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
:Hello and welcome! Your article on the Mohs Automobiles looks really really good so far. I've already made some small edits and may add some more details when I find them. One question—you describe the ''F.O.B.'' cost, which is something that I'm unfamiliar with. Can you explain (or reword) what this means in the article? Overall though, interesting stuff! Milkmandan/Milkmandan 04:50, 2005 Jan 27
::Hi - Thanks for your input. F.O.B. price is the price of the vehicle '''from origin of business''' - as if one were to pay cash for the vehicle as it rolled off the production line and drive it off the grounds (no transportation costs for the manufacturer to build into the wholesale cost). If you go through manufacturer to dealer lit, you'll see the price of a Packard was 5,999 F.O.B. Detroit, or for a Studebaker F.O.B. South Bend. I included it in the Mohs Automobile listing because they sold direct to their customers, never having a dealer network per se. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 13:44, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Name of the game
I know I'm new, and that this probably isn't the correct fodder for this forum, but I find it amusing when cars are rolled out into a market with names that "aren't right" for that market. For example:
*Daihatsu Charade - (If its not what it says it is, then what is it?)
*Chevrolet Nova - (Sold poorly in Mexico because it "didn't go")
*Ford Aspire - (A small car that its makers seeming wished had a loftier cachet)
user: stude62 user talk:stude62 14:12, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
:I've always found marketing (and specifically, design) trends to be particularly interesting. I've been wanting to put together a page on automotive design trends for a while, but I don't really have the reference materials to make it work right—an article describing differing naming conventions used on cars (e.g. the use of numbers vs. names on higher-end marques to shift the focus toward the brand itself) would be really interesting. A discussion of oddities like this one would probably be very appropriate in an article like this. Do note, however, that the Nova connection has been debunked already :) [http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp] Overall, though, I like the idea. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 17:52, 2005 Jan 27
::Milkmandan, are you thinking of an article that describes, say, how car shapes have moved from horseless carriages to more uniform, unified shapes (e.g. minivans), examining the reduction of overhangs, etc.? I would definitely support an automobile design trends page to which we could all contribute. I've noticed the alphanumeric phenomenon, too, especially at Land Rover now. Could this be put on the model and marque page that SFoskett started? Stombs/Stombs 02:36, Jan 29, 2005
:::Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking; and, probably highlighting the major design themes and unusual exceptions during distinct periods. I presume the model&marque page you mentioned is marque; this is what I was thinking it terms of names, although I'm sure we should discuss whether or not to branch it into a new page.
:::In any event, we need to be very careful with references. Any design commentary and critique would have to be referenced in from the outside. I've already noticed that the marque article has an NPOV tag—I suspect the same thing would happen on a design trend page. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 03:03, 2005 Jan 29
Move De Lorean to De Lorean Motor Company?
I've moved all the DMC-12 specific information from the De Lorean page to the De Lorean DMC-12 page. Since all that's left in the De Lorean page is a discussion of the company itself, I think it's appropriate to move it to De Lorean Motor Company, which currently redirects in. I tried to move it over with admin help, but they want a more formal call for votes—please weigh in at Talk:De Lorean if you have a moment. I'd rather this get discussed first within the WikiProject Auto community, as opposed to the Requested moves page. Thanks! Milkmandan/Milkmandan 07:45, 2005 Jan 28
'Bolding' of car model names
I've noticed that in some automobile articles, names of variants of the main model are written in bold (for examples, see Aston Martin V12 Vanquish, Chevrolet Corvette and Honda NSX). The Manual of Style#Sections/Manual of Style says: "If the subject of the article has more than one name, each new form of the name should be in bold on its first appearance.". It seems to me that ''variations'' of the article's subject (here, variations of the main automobile model) shouldn't be bolded, but I wanted to know if anyone else has an opinion on this (or cares ;-)). SamH/SamH/User talk:SamH/Talk 23:33, 30 Jan 2005
:I get the impression this is in response to some of the bolding that I do when grooming pages :) Trying to find information about a specific model can be a real mess when combing through an entire article. I usually bold out the names so it's easy to pick them up when scanning the article. This achieves a different purpose than the Manual of Style entry you linked—emphasis isn't, after all, limited to section titles. Do you know of a Style entry that covers this use more directly? Milkmandan/Milkmandan 23:49, 2005 Jan 30
::I concur - I've been bolding anything important that people might be looking for. So, for example, I bold the main marque and model name, any other model names (especially if they're redirected to the page in question) and any important submodels. If it's got a whole paragraph or more, I bold it. Anyone care to suggest a different style? Sfoskett/SFoskett 00:31, Jan 31, 2005
:::OK. Although I don't use bolding myself, I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other, and it does make sense to emphasise important sub–models. I just thought it would be good to establish a policy about whether or not we should use bolding in this way, so that in future, all auto articles could be standardised. SamH/SamH/User talk:SamH/Talk 11:41, 31 Jan 2005
::::Policy established in the WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions#Names of variants or other models/conventions document. Please change it if I've botched it. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 13:50, 2005 Jan 31
:::::Looks good to me, Milkmandan. I've been doing something along these lines, perhaps subconsciously. Stombs/Stombs 12:23, Feb 3, 2005
"Part of the ''Manufacturer'' automobile series"
I've noticed a bunch of pages (e.g., Jeep Wrangler, Ford Explorer, Mazda RX-7) that use the phrase, ''this article is part of the automobile series'' in the sidebar have the manufucturer crammed in there, too. ''This article is part of the Ford automobile series'' seems a bit forced, considering that we don't really have a manufacturer-specific series and, in any event, the manufacturer is clearly listed at the beginning of the bar.
Does the manufacturer name in the text serve some other purpose? I'd like to see the sidebars generalized. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 16:06, 2005 Feb 3
:As a newbie, I'm not sure if its my place to comment, but it seems excessive. It seems that the people using computers and looking at an automobile article should know what an automobile is in the first place. The simpler, the better. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 18:27, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
::Very good point. I guess that unless we have a page devoted to the ''Automobile Series'', then having that line at all seems unnecessary. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 20:46, 2005 Feb 3
:::Just to clarify, I'm leaning towards using the version without the manufacturer just because it standardizes the sidebars. I suppose this is something to reopen later...probably when we start considering revamping the formats. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 17:33, 2005 Feb 5
:::: Ah... (raises guilty hand) I put it there while creating that box cos one of the other projects (might have been aircraft?) had some text in a similar vein, and I thought the bottom of the box looked a bit incomplete... with hindsight, it was probably a dumb idea. I was intending on just doing some sketching out at the time to get things started, and never really came back to it. I'm awful at biting off more than I can chew :) Akadruid/akaDruid 14:16, 8 Mar 2005
Canadian Marques
I've added in thirty-eight (38) additional marques to the Canadian section of the List of automobile manufacturers page. I have this strange, sudden urge to rush out and buy an Acadian Beaumont ... user: stude62 user talk:stude62 16:41, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
*Milkmandan has been kind of enough to look at the list and fix some links. I'm willing to start on the stubs for the unwritten articles, but I have a question. Since many of these marques have U.S. origins, but many are different enough (trim, body basis, name, no US equivilant, etc.) that they really aren't the same as US models. For example, the De Soto Diplomat was a De Soto in name and trim only (it was actually a Dodge); do I notate on the master De Soto page (De Soto automobile) or does it deserve its own De Soto Canadian page. I would prefer that the model have its own article and then tie back to a blurb on the current De Soto page rather then the other way, which would seem to start another naming convention. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 21:30, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
::Depends entirely on the situation. Here are the three that I can think of (excuse my abuse of the ''Diplomat'' name):
::#If the Diplomat was really just a rebadged Dodge, definitely redirect into the Dodge page and put a note in the introduction paragraph that it's also sold as a De Soto.
::#In the contrary event that the De Soto Diplomat in Canada was a substantially different car than the De Soto Diplomat sold in elsewhere, I'd suggest an article called ''De Soto Diplomat (Canada)'', with a note in the regular De Soto Diplomat page that multiple cars with the Diplomat name existed.
::#If the Diplomat has no non-Canadian equivalent, ''De Soto Diplomat'' will do just fine.
::As far as the De Soto (automobile) page, I'd say to just add information to the existing page until it demands fragmentation. I can see there being significant benefit to splitting regional information of a really long page (such as breaking BMW US out of the regular BMW page), but it'll be a while until that's necessary. Until then, all models worldwide go on the same page.
::Does this answer your question? Milkmandan/Milkmandan 22:00, 2005 Feb 5
Cadillac links
A few weeks ago I noticed a link being dropped into the Cadillac Escalade page. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cadillac_Escalade&diff=9685331&oldid=9680670] It points to a Cadillac picture gallery, but the gallery requires registration to see anything more than thumbnails.
It turns out that these links have been dumped across the Cadillac pages. (Contributions/68.215.43.208, Contributions/65.11.181.194)
There's a quick discussion on the Talk:Cadillac Escalade page about it, and I'd like to suggest that we remove these across all of these pages.
It seems like links are getting dumped inconsistently across most car pages anyway. A set of guidelines of what is appropriate and what isn't seems like a really good idea. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 18:44, 2005 Feb 11
:The limited response I've heard so far is that these links can probably be dumped. I'm going to start removing them in a few days if I don't run across some serious opposition. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 08:11, 2005 Feb 25
FAQ
I've added a WikiProject Automobiles/FAQ/FAQ because it seems like a lot of the same issues come up with new contributors. Any way to make the transition into the Wikipedia easier is, in my mind, a positive thing. The FAQ serves to address questions that are already answered in the other Auto Project (and main Wikipedia) pages, but which aren't immediately accessible due to article size. I think a FAQ would provide a vital first shot at getting the most important information to new WikiGearheads.
I haven't linked it to the main WikiProject Auto page yet because I think the concept needs to be discussed and the page needs to be expanded/edited.
What are your thoughts? Please discuss at the FAQ Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/FAQ/talk. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 20:16, 2005 Feb 26
Featured Article
I'm trying to get Wankel engine to be a featured article. I've been modding it according to the "friendly" suggestions of the folks at Featured article candidates/Wankel engine, but think maybe some help from the folks here might be more useful. Anyone want to take a go at copyediting the History section? Sfoskett/SFoskett 12:57, Feb 28, 2005
:I've got a printout and a red pen that will be heavily employed during my classes today—expect something in a few hours. The first thing I see is the usual Featured Article complaint: references, references, references. In-text cites are your friend! Milkmandan/Milkmandan 16:06, 2005 Feb 28
::One of my favorite authors said that the best way of editing down an article is to try and eliminate all words that end in "ly" and every "very". I don't know if this applies here, but I know I have to do a better job at following it. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 03:04, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
::OK, I'm having a fairly hard time editing this. Generally this means that the paper is either pretty good or I'm just too unfamiliar with the subject material. In this case, I'm thinking it's a bit of both—I have some pretty good rewrites for everything up to the history section (including two paragraphs totally rewritten), but I keep getting stuck at that point. I'll take another stab at it tomorrow after I've gotten some sleep. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 06:56, 2005 Mar 1
Stutz Motor Company
I'm a sucker for weird marques. So I just went through adding lots of info on Stutz. I especially focused on the crazy 1970s cars. Anyone care to add/edit/read? Sfoskett/SFoskett 17:33, Mar 1, 2005
:Popping over there now, SFoskett. Been busy on assignments at work. Like you I like those Exner carsalmost bought the Hot Wheels one when I was a kid. Stombs/Stombs 22:53, Mar 5, 2005
Under the best 'Tracfone ringtones be bold' tradition of Wikipedia I'm going to try and kick-start this project. Editing Adore Kym automobile, Crazy frog ringtone hot hatch and Adore Summer The effect of the automobile on the United States/The effect of the automobile... has attracted enough comments for me to know I'm not the only one with an interest in cars.
I'm fairly new to editing the Wikipedia, although I've floated around long enough to know a little about what is here and what isn't. I would appreciate any guidance from more senior Wikipedians on how to set up a WikiProject - as yet there seems to be no article about this.
I know there are petrolheads and vehicle connoisseurs out there - please do put your names down and we'll try to get some good stuff going.
Thanks! Cricket ringtones Akadruid/akaDruid 15:57, 26 Feb 2004
Announcement?
I noticed other Wikiprojects have announced their start on the announcement page. My boldness doesn't extend as far as editing that page - I would appreciate some guidance on that e.g. is there a announcements/submissions or similar page?
Thanks! Adore Alexis Akadruid/akaDruid 16:51, 26 Feb 2004
Possible 'To Do' List
There are a huge number of potential things to do in this project. Here are some ideas I've had to get started with:
*Design a layout for pages covering individual vehicles, and select and example page showing the layout well. We need a boiler plate text, something along the lines of 'This is part of the ''automobile'' series', plus navigational links etc. Look at the LG ringtones WikiProject Ships/ships and Amber Teen WikiProject Aircraft/aircraft projects for more on this.
*Improve navigation between vehicle pages, manufacturers pages and header pages. Samsung ringtone Car classification needs work. Alison 18 List of automobile manufacturers might be a good starting point for some work.
*Fill in some of the gaps. There are some very major missing articles, of the top of my head: Cingular Ringtones Caterham, blacks humbled Wolseley, things his Talbot, divorced luciano De Tomaso, crime poverty Isuzu. The list of important missing vehicles is huge too.
*Give advice on naming schemes for car makers and models.
I've made a quick start on a layout, see elsewhere moussaoui Jaguar E-type. white cheddar Akadruid/akaDruid 12:03, 1 Mar 2004
* I moved the suggested new layout to chambord heads WikiProject_Automobiles/Layouts//Layouts the spans Akadruid/akaDruid 10:15, 2 Mar 2004
Here's a stub To-Do list for you guys... See alternately sort Tag: Automobile_stubs. It's surprising really, the number of stubs you guys have now mark up to 300+ in two months time... Just thought to drop a note. You guys seem to have a daunting task ahead. grueling theater Allyunion/league owners User:Allyunion/AllyUnion trees building User Talk:Allyunion/(Talk) 08:50, 5 Sep 2004
"Premier Automotive Group"
I added trouble painting Premier Automotive Group/"Premier Automotive Group" to Wikipedia. The first sentence is: "Ford Motor Company owns the Premier Automotive Group (PAG), which is presumably a self-sufficient company that combines the business operations of Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo."
I'm not sure this is accurate; if not, perhaps a WikiProject Automobiles member could re-write it. —censure president Vespristiano/Vespristiano 05:10, 2004 Mar 25
I've done some work on the article. In my understanding, the PAG is a division of Ford, rather than a company in its own right. Additionally, someone had added yorker but Lincoln to the list of brands in the PAG - this is not correct. Ford does sell cars under the Lincoln brand, but does not consider them part of the PAG. with dogs Akadruid/akaDruid 10:57, 25 Mar 2004
Lincoln was actually part of the PAG at its inception. Changes in personnel and marketing strategy (and maybe some cost-cutting) later caused it to be reorganized back into the Ford/Mercury operation. Here's an article at Ward's Auto Reports that lays out the original http://wdb.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_premier_automotive_group/. contemporary sensibility RivGuySC/RivGuySC 06:25, 29 Mar 2004
Ah, interesting. I didn't know that! genre however Akadruid/akaDruid 09:54, 29 Mar 2004
Ward's article was correct at the time. Lincoln was pulled out of PAG primarily because of "brand-fit" issues... PAG is former independent companies, euro themed, with a whole different core customer base than Lincoln. PAG is more of an organizational subdivision like how the lines are drawn on the org chart than an independent organization. daguerreotypes and Pmeisel/Pmeisel 02:29, 2 Jan 2005
get time Ford Capri
Hi folks, I've set down a basic page on the classic Capri and made an assumption (based on a strong feeling) that the Capri was based on the Ford Cortina of the time. Can anybody confirm or deny this? I've struggled to find evidence on the web but I'm sure I read something along these lines in the motoring press some time ago. This is worth checking as it was me who assumed Lincoln was still in PAG and was proven wrong!! Thanks. Prichardson/Pete Richardson 12:54, 6 Apr 2004
:I can't see anything about this, I would just leave it there until someone proves you right or wrong! Akadruid/akaDruid 10:39, 8 Apr 2004
:Yes, I think I can confirm the Capri's origins. ''Collectible Automobile'' for June 2002 has the car's history as a feature article. It says that Ford was primarily looking to recreate the Mustang's success in a model suited to the European market: "Just as the Mustang had been born of the Falcon platform, a similarly utilitarian vehicle was needed to act as the basis for the European version...Such a car was available in the popular Cortina, produced by Ford of England since the autumn of 1962." RivGuySC/RivGuySC 05:39, 12 Apr 2004
Can't cite a specific source but remember from the time that the Capri was a sporty version of the Cortina. I probably read it in 1960s era Road & Track magazine Pmeisel/Pmeisel 02:31, 2 Jan 2005
Default Layouts
Another idea in the pot: how about a standard data box for trim levels? Also (as I've mentioned elsewhere) it wouldn't hurt to have layouts for engine specs. I may knock up something for the Ford Mondeo page to see what you guys think. Prichardson/Pete Richardson 14:29, 7 Apr 2004
:Sounds good to me. —Vespristiano/Vespristiano 22:21, 2004 Apr 7
::Yup. BTW, Ford Mondeo is looking pretty good. This might be a candidate for the example page for WikiProject Automobiles. Akadruid/akaDruid 10:39, 8 Apr 2004
:Oh, yeah, Pete, that Mondeo article is way slick. But tell us how you did itdid you have to hand-code the table? (Ugh!) Or is it possible to export one from FrontPage or similar software? I haven't really figured out how HTML relates to Wikipedia, I'm afraid. RivGuySC/RivGuySC 05:24, 11 Apr 2004
::I converted the table to the newer Wiki code for tables, which is a little more readable (in my opinion) than HTML. I think the visual appearance could be improved a little, possibly; also, we need for many (all?) cars to have both metric and Imperial measurements. Morven/—Morven 09:08, 12 Apr 2004
:::Nice work! I updated the example page to use the Ford Mondeo article - the new table code is better and it's a better example article than VW Golf. Akadruid/akaDruid 10:27, 14 Apr 2004
Proposed naming convention
I put up a proposed automobile article naming convention in WikiProject Automobiles/Proposed naming convention - please look at it and comment/alter, thanks! Morven/—Morven 23:33, 24 May 2004
David Burgess Wise's Encyclopedia
I have a copy of David Burgess Wise's ''The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Automobiles'' that I've been regurgitating (not copying outright, mind you); thus far, I'm about three-quarters of the way through the A's. The book is 12 years out of date, but it's a very good resource for many old, forgotten marques. While it's concerned more with the technical side of various cars, I think it's a good start. And it has good capsule histories of many of the major makes, including Armstrong-Siddeley (which article I added this afternoon) and Panhard & Levassor (which appears to have no article whatsoever - rather shocking considering this company's importance).
I'm going to be continuing with the thing for as long as I can; I hope it will be of some assistance.
Boccherini's Guitar/Boccherini's Guitar 01:06, 26 Jul 2004
:Good stuff! I'm glad you're going to be careful about copyright - best to make sure that no wording is similar to the book, if you can. And please, break it into paragraphs a bit more than you're doing I went to Armstrong-Siddeley and did just that. We need at least a starter article on vast numbers of historic marques. Morven/—Morven 08:18, Jul 26, 2004
::We also need a category (other than "Automobiles") for historic marques. In fact, I think we should have very few articles in the category to make it easier to navigate! Especially historic (as in no-longer-produced) marques should go in a subcategory, while current marques (those that people are most likely to be interested in?) can go in the first level of Automobiles. Perhaps "Historic Automobiles" or "Historic Automobile Marques"? Or maybe even "Pre-War Automobiles" and "Post-War Automobiles" to follow the field's standard nomenclature? Sfoskett/Sfoskett 12:05, 26 Jul 2004
:::If you don't mind, I shall be putting further marques in the "automobile" category for the moment, pending a decision as to what kind of organization historic marques need. I can always go through the list and change designations. A lot of them need to be redesignated as "auto-stubs", too.Boccherini's Guitar/Boccherini's Guitar 20:52, 26 Jul 2004
OK - I just went on vacation for a week and a half, and got back last night. I went to see the Frick Collection outside of Pittsburgh, which has a nice little auto museum; I got a few pictures for some of the harder-to-find historic marques (such as American Bantam) of which they had examples on display. I should like to upload these for insertion into the articles in question; would there be any problems with this?207.69.137.137/207.69.137.137 19:16, 9 Aug 2004
:Problems? Quite the opposite - this is exactly what we want, car articles are always better with photos. Pictures really are worth a thousand words in this case! Go for it. Akadruid/akaDruid (User talk:Akadruid/Talk) 11:38, 10 Aug 2004
New stuff
I just wanted to mention the following fun "list of..." pages. More input, as always, is appreciated!
* List of automotive superlatives
* List of automobile model and marque oddities
Enjoy! Sfoskett/SFoskett 13:35, Sep 14, 2004
:Very cool! Just goes how many cool little corners of the WP there are. I'm gonna start dropping some edits on the first one I feel. Akadruid/akaDruid 14:25, 6 Oct 2004
New subpage
I'd like to create a new subpage talking about things like typography conventions (cc versus ml, ft.lbf, , and so on) within automobile articles. thoughts? Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:54, Oct 4, 2004
:I'm for itwould be good to get consistency. I know I've been doing cm³ instead of cc; we've chatted about L elsewhere; and I have a tiny problem with , in that while it's a good way to keep number and unit together, on some TrueType fonts the space is twice as large as the regular one. Stombs/Stombs 23:37, Jan 1, 2005
:: OK, let's have at it! WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions Sfoskett/SFoskett 23:56, Jan 1, 2005
:::Great, see you there! Stombs/Stombs 23:59, Jan 1, 2005
Timelines
Whaddya folks think of these?
Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:09, Oct 5, 2004
:Very nice; good work. SamH/SamH 19:32, 5 Oct 2004
:Yes, quite interesting & creative. RivGuySC/RivGuySC 21:13, 5 Oct 2004
:I like 'em! Akadruid/akaDruid 14:23, 6 Oct 2004
::Great, SFoskett! Also I like your use of the correct codes. Stombs/Stombs 11:23, Oct 26, 2004
Article needing help
We usually have surprisingly little mangled prose in the car articles. However, this one seems to have been machine-translated from Old High Martian: Chevrolet Citation. I could improve itthat wouldn't be hard!but it would be better if somebody that knows the model could tear into it. I'm weak on compacts. RivGuySC/RivGuySC 02:06, 7 Oct 2004
Sports cars and supercars
We've been having a little discussion over at Talk:Honda NSX and Talk:Sports car about what is and isn't a sports car/super car. I decided to put it to a straw poll. Please take a moment to "vote" at the following articles:
* Talk:Chevrolet Corvette
* Talk:Ford Mustang
* Talk:Honda NSX
* Talk:Lamborghini Murcielago
* Talk:Mazda Miata
* Talk:Toyota MR2
Thank you. Sfoskett/SFoskett 13:58, Oct 10, 2004
More cars to categorize:
* Talk:Saab 99
* Talk:Saab 9-3
* Talk:Saab 9-2X
Thanks! Sfoskett/SFoskett 12:48, Oct 11, 2004
The mysterious page rewriter
I've just reverted yet another rewritten car page from our mysterious page. We have to think of some way of reaching this person and trying to help them become a more productive member of the community. I have an idea:
I'd like to place a note in HTML comments at the top of some pages likely to be replaced by this person. The note would ask them to please create an account and join this project instead of merely rewriting entire pages. What do you all think of this idea? Sfoskett/SFoskett 01:06, Oct 18, 2004
:Sounds good to me. (I'll be honest, though: I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. Would you be kind enough to elaborate on what the problem is?) —Vespristiano/Vespristiano 23:05, 20 Oct 2004
::I think SFoskett is referring to a mystery writer whose IP begins with 213.122; the latest one seems to be 213.122.196.51. I agree with SFoskett but wonder if we can ever track this person down since the IP seems to change each time (he's probably on a dial-up). If we can find him, then I hope we can persuade him to sign up. His latest changes at General Motors Astra were factually incorrect or POV-based, which I've reverted. Stombs/Stombs 23:16, Jan 1, 2005
:::I've begun posting comments at the IP addresses that he's used and that I can locate. He does appear to be British, based on his contributions. Stombs/Stombs 00:16, Jan 2, 2005
::::BTW seems other Wikipedians have had problems with a user doing wholesale replacements and: what a coincidence! His IP begins also with 213.122. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search?ns2=1&ns3=1&ns9=1&ns11=1&search=213.122&searchx=Search. One of them refers to a 11- or 12-year-old by the name of Michael James Patefield. Others refer to Wiltshire. This same user also wiped the contents at Communist Party of Great Britain with his own version, which has the same tone as some of the stuff he has been damaging automobile pages with. It will pay to keen an eye on this IP sequence. Stombs/Stombs 07:42, Jan 6, 2005
:::::Is this linked to the mysterious overwrites I picked up a while back? I found several, and started listed them on Akadruid/overwrites because I thought they were copy-vio. I've not been watching my watchlist so closely recently, so I've not seen any for a while. User:Akadruid/akaDruid 11:56, 10 Jan 2005
:::::Forgot to say, a lot of them were done by IP 213.122.xxx.xxx Akadruid/akaDruid 11:58, 10 Jan 2005
::::::Hi akaDruid: I suspect so, yes. The Communist Party one I referred to was identical in behaviour: taking an existing page and overwriting the whole lot. He's still at it. Stombs/Stombs 09:06, Jan 11, 2005
He's back! Now at 81.131.76.208 so he must have gotten a new ISP or must be sitting in a coffee shop... The same MO with the "MK1" junk and UK-centric POV writing style. User:Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:20, Jan 21, 2005
:Thanks for the heads-up, SFoskettI'll keep an eye out as well. Stombs/Stombs 10:33, Jan 22, 2005
::Just a tiny note: both 213.122.x.x and 81.131.76.208 are BT addresses, in the UK, which supports the theory these are the same user. Stombs/Stombs 11:40, Jan 22, 2005
American bias on world cars
I've edited the Mazda3 page because it neglected European and Japanese versions of the cars. American bias (and to a lesser extent, British bias) seems to be a problem affecting articles on cars that originated in places outside North America. This is mainly due to lack of knowledge and lack of research, and affects mostly available engine options and renaming for different markets. British bias happens on some continental models, but to a lesser extent.
Please use these websites on research about http://www.autoindex.org and http://www.histomobile.com automobiles. They're not complete, and mainly refer to technical specifications, but they're not bad. Pc13/Pc13 14:50, 27 Dec 2004
:Whatever bias there is (and I know it is there, witness Toyota Corolla) is purely unintentional. Please accept my invitation to continue correcting our Yank and Brit oversights! I've started separate USA sections on some articles (see Mazda Familia and Mazda RX-4 for examples) to show what is local and what is worldwide. I try to research, but don't always succeed. Sfoskett/SFoskett 15:00, Dec 27, 2004
:: No problem, I didn't think the bias was intentional. It just make things incomplete rather than wrong, and since I'm interested in market specificity in the automotive world (something I may want to add List of automobile model and marque oddities/here in the future), I tend to notice these things. And since I believe the English Wikipedia is more likely to attract visitors from non-native English speakers, I'd rather keep the automotive articles as international as possible.
:: On that note, I'd like to propose the use of this format for horsepower, I've already started using it:
::* ECE/DIN: 1 kW (1.36 bhp DIN)
::* SAE: 1kW (1.34 bhp SAE)
::* JIS: 1kW (1.36 bhp JIS) Pc13/Pc13 15:18, 27 Dec 2004
:::I do think some of the problem is not intent, but often the research itself is biased (Googling a lot of models results usually in US pages first). I'm sure between us all we'll manage to internationalize Wikipedia. My view, and I already see it employed on a lot of pages, especially SFoskett's Mazda edits, is that the country of origin information should be the "base" and any export market information is "derivative". Stombs/Stombs 23:27, Jan 1, 2005
::::The world car and derivative issue is getting somewhat more difficult to decipher as platforms morph and proliferate across brands of different nationalities owned by the same parent. Some Mazdas are brand-engineered Fords, and some Fords brand engineered Mazdas, just to cite an easy one. Pmeisel/Pmeisel 01:01, 8 Jan 2005
:::::If I understand this correctly, may I suggest that date of release might be a way around this? This is slightly off-topic, but when I wrote the BMC 1100 and 1300 pages, I began with the Morris 1100 as the "main" page, since it was released nearly a year before the Austin equivalent. With the Landcrab, I did the Austin 1800 page first. But the lineage of Fords and Mazdas might help, for they could warrant separate pages. There are sufficient differences between the Mazda 323 and the Ford Laser, for instancenotably where each model "went" and how their histories developed. I do agree it is tricky: the Mazda B-Series is now two very different vehicles, one engineered by Ford for North America, and one engineered by Mazda elsewhere, and on such pages it may make sense to have both conventions depending on the model being discussed. Stombs/Stombs 07:13, Jan 8, 2005
=British bias on European cars?=
Related to the above: any thoughts on the Opel Speedster and Vauxhall VX 220? I think of them as Opels, but they are made in England, so it's a fair call that the Vauxhall page leadsthen, the same argument could be levelled at various Luton- and Ellesmore Port-built Opels. I would also like to raise the issue of the Simca 1307 and 1308, and the Chrysler Alpine. I had redirected the Alpine page to the Simca, as that car was released first and is known as that in more countries, but I notice that someone else had changed this so that Chrysler Alpine became the lead page again. Thoughts are welcome as I believe this is another sign of British bias. Should Vauxhall VX 220 be changed, and should Simca 1307 be the page on which Alpine data reside? Stombs/Stombs 09:53, Jan 9, 2005
: There is some, but it's more problematic on non-British marques, including Renault and Peugeot. As for the Chrysler Europe/Simca/Rootes Group models problem, I suggest the Sunbeeam Alpine/Chrysler Alpine and Talbot 1510 pages should redirect to the Simca 1307, while the Sunbeam TI/Talbot Sunbeam should redirect to Chrysler Sunbeam. About GM Europe products, it's more complicated especially considering the Kadett/Astra relationship, but I'd prefer to see every new Vauxhall since 1981 redirect to its Opel equivalent. Of course, British nomenclature should be obligatory addressed, when different. Pc13/Pc13 19:16, 9 Jan 2005
::I'd rather see other names be stubs rather than redirects. For one thing, there is often some difference in looks, and some history unique to that version. I do agree that one version generally should contain the mass of information, however, rather than duplicating it. This should either be the original model OR the most produced, in cases where the original model is obscure and was unsuccessful. Obscurity in the English-speaking world is not, I think, sufficient cause to change this; someone might learn something.
::I favor stubs especially so that the reader gets instantly the information that is relevant to what they were looking for, rather than being redirected to a page that at first doesn't seem like the right one. I think it's better that each version gets a short page along the lines of
:::The '''Chrysler Alpine''' was a derivative of the Simca 1307, sold in the United Kingdom between ''xxxx'' and ''xxxx''. Differences from the Simca include ...
::and possibly with explicit text of 'See the Simca 1307 page for more information.' Morven/—Morven 13:29, Jan 10, 2005
:::I like your idea, Pc13, because it's quite logical: Chrysler UK was responsible for the Sunbeam and Chrysler Sunbeam is where it should reside; the Simca 1307 would be a more logical place for the majority of the information. Sfoskett and I are both keen on the Opel pages being the main ones for post-1981 VauxhallsI would make exceptions for the cases that Morven describes.
:::For instance, the Vauxhall Carlton deserves its own page for the Mark I "cat's eyes" models, and the Cavalier should retain its one, especially since the name has some "lineage" prior to the Mk III.
:::Morven, I've come to believe a stub could be sensible for Chrysler Alpine for the reason you stategood idea. Stombs/Stombs 09:12, Jan 11, 2005
User:82.42.151.164
Could fellow Wikipedians keep an eye on this user's edits? There are fictional models (e.g. Mazda Sandra, Holden Cera) and false info (diesels and 2·5 V6s being fitted to Argentinian Ford Sierras and Ford Meteors being European grey imports) being added. I will have a word to him/her. Stombs/Stombs 05:21, Jan 9, 2005
: Will do, although you didn't need to turn the Nissan Wingroad page into a redirect, it just needed more information. Taken care of, now. Pc13/Pc13 19:16, 9 Jan 2005
::My rationale was that they are really Sunny Wagons and it was better than a page from 82.42.151.164 in the interim, but I believe your solution is better, since there were notable design differences with the Mk I Wingroads. Stombs/Stombs 09:20, Jan 11, 2005
:::Looks like that user is now Eastery6, judging from the edits. He created a page for a Mazda model that I've never heard of, the "Mazda Celtus", and uploaded :Image:Mazdaceltus1.jpg/a suspicious photo. I'd like a new contributor, but this looks like a bunch of bunk. User:Sfoskett/SFoskett 19:23, Jan 11, 2005
::::I've added Mazda Celtus to Votes for deletion/VfD. He's also been vandalizing pages (VW Golf and Ford Mondeo, linking the latter to a page for the British National Party, and saying the Ford Focus was badge-engineered as a Chevy) and added more fictional information to the Opel Vectra page. I think you're right about the user's identity as he has gone and edited the talk page for Eastery6, too. I have to hand it to him though: Chevrolet Avestra, Mazda Celtus and Holden Cera are nice names! Stombs/Stombs 08:27, Jan 12, 2005
:::::According to Eastery6's User page (the original version), the person's name is "Andrea Jackson", a name which matches a banned user from [http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-28,GGLD:en&q=site%3Adigitalspy%2Eco%2Euk+%22Andrea+Jackson%22+Digitalspy%2Euk] who talked about chavvy cars and other loverly topics there. User:Sfoskett/SFoskett 17:20, Jan 12, 2005
::::::Thanks, SFoskett: must be the same person as one edit to the Nissan Primera page was about its chav reputation. (S)he's at it again, mind: Isuzu Solar was added to the GM T platform page. Seeing if anyone's caught it and going there now Stombs/Stombs 21:49, Jan 12, 2005
This looks like a vandal we're going to have to ban. There is no "Nissan Exanto", and no 1.4L engine in the Netherlands. We should go through ALL this person's edits with a fine-tooth comb. It's a shame that someone would go through all this trouble just to vandalize some car articles. Sfoskett/SFoskett 22:11, Jan 12, 2005
:I agree with you, SFoskett. Just spent the last hour correcting info on Nissan Sunny and VW Golf engine choices, and a good part of yesterday on adding the Mazda Celtus to VfD, etc. I have checked most of Eastery6's "contributions" and spent some time on 82.42.151.164, but any double-checking is welcome. Stombs/Stombs 22:27, Jan 12, 2005
::There's a Easty2 from November 2004 that looks a bit dodgy, too, though I think we've managed to catch that user's edits. Maybe I'm being paranoid about the name's similarity to Eastery6. User:Stombs/Stombs 22:37, Jan 12, 2005
Apologies for my vandalism. I will confine them to the sandbox. I am fairly new to this Wikipedia thing. Advice would be appreciated.
Thank you for apologizing, and I am sure you would be a very productive member of Wikipedia. I would suggest, before making changes, to open a new tab or window in your browser and Googling info just to be sure. The correct things you have added are great: the images, some of the more obscure info (when accurate), so we'd love to see more of that. You obviously have a talent for writing and for research and when your facts are right, you're definitely one to be applauded for adding them.
Why not pop by Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles and meet some of the others working on automotive articles? I am sure they can provide additional advice, and I'm also sure they wouldn't mind hearing from you, too, since we have been quite concerned about the vandalism.
I am taking that advice now. Anyway, I will check my sources.
Sorry for the fictitious cars - I like creating new cars!! being the creative person that i am!
im not vandalising any more.
any advice, just post here.
Please don't ban me. I apologise. 82.42.151.164/82.42.151.164 14:13, Jan 14, 2005
:Fellow Wikipedians, I was the one in contact with 82.42.151.164 (or Eastery6?), and I believe the apology to be sincere. We do welcome you to Wikipedia, hope to have you as a productive member of our team, and I'm sure advice would be welcome. Stombs/Stombs 01:16, Jan 15, 2005
General Motors Astra
i have updated the General Motors Astra with details of the Opel Kadett.82.42.151.164/82.42.151.164 Jan 16, 2005
:Thank you. It might be an idea to chat about model-specific matters on that particular car's discussion page. I did notice your adding a 1.7 diesel, yet I think that was in the Opel Corsa in South Africa, not the Kadett or Astra, and edited accordingly. Maybe let me know on the Talk:General Motors Astra/Astra discussion page. I'll catch it there. Stombs/Stombs 10:44, Jan 17, 2005
Private imports
It's happened a few times on New Zealand-related pages, and it's a bit annoying. I vote we do not include vehicles privately imported, or those unofficially imported by used car dealers (grey imports). Exceptions should be made when the grey imports are significant and create a large following, or if they alter the official concessionaire's policy. Any thoughts? Stombs/Stombs 10:53, Jan 17, 2005
:What's the problem, exactly - what's the 'it' that's happened? You don't tell us. Morven/—Morven 19:16, Jan 19, 2005
::'It' is the inclusion of privately imported vehicles or those unofficially imported by used car dealers on a particular model's page. Stombs/Stombs 06:39, Jan 20, 2005
Hyundai experts?
Any Hyundai experts among us? I found a comment on the Toyota Corona page by a 150.204.50.38 which turned out to be bogus (''viz.'' that there was a Toyota Alexia), and noted this user's rather major entry on the Hyundai Elantra. I'm not that ''au fait'' with the model, but knowledgeable enough to know that 2001 certainly wasn't the launch date for the countries which called the older Lantra under the Elantra name (e.g. Canada). The writer lists UK models, and I shall be interested to know if they are correct. Corrections there are welcome. Stombs/Stombs 12:01, Jan 19, 2005
Sources of information: www.autoweek.nl for Netherlands, various UK car websites for England and www.consumerguide.com for USA cars. Hope this helps. Apologies for the vandalism. User:82.42.151.164/82.42.151.164 Jan 19, 2005
:Thank youI knew of these but I wasn't particularly passionate about the brand and probably wouldn't enjoy writing it! I might see to thisdepends how frustrated I get with the Elantra info as it currently stands. Stombs/Stombs 00:47, Jan 21, 2005
::OK, all done at Hyundai Avante and Hyundai Elantra, but both are stubbed. Stombs/Stombs 01:10, Jan 21, 2005
Hello & Help!
Hello-
Since I seem to have a great interest in American Automobiles, I thought I would drop in, if its OK. I'm hoping to get some help with an article that just posted to Wikipedia Mohs Automobile. Can some folks take a look at it and tell me what you think? user: stude62 user talk:stude62 04:00, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
:Hello and welcome! Your article on the Mohs Automobiles looks really really good so far. I've already made some small edits and may add some more details when I find them. One question—you describe the ''F.O.B.'' cost, which is something that I'm unfamiliar with. Can you explain (or reword) what this means in the article? Overall though, interesting stuff! Milkmandan/Milkmandan 04:50, 2005 Jan 27
::Hi - Thanks for your input. F.O.B. price is the price of the vehicle '''from origin of business''' - as if one were to pay cash for the vehicle as it rolled off the production line and drive it off the grounds (no transportation costs for the manufacturer to build into the wholesale cost). If you go through manufacturer to dealer lit, you'll see the price of a Packard was 5,999 F.O.B. Detroit, or for a Studebaker F.O.B. South Bend. I included it in the Mohs Automobile listing because they sold direct to their customers, never having a dealer network per se. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 13:44, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Name of the game
I know I'm new, and that this probably isn't the correct fodder for this forum, but I find it amusing when cars are rolled out into a market with names that "aren't right" for that market. For example:
*Daihatsu Charade - (If its not what it says it is, then what is it?)
*Chevrolet Nova - (Sold poorly in Mexico because it "didn't go")
*Ford Aspire - (A small car that its makers seeming wished had a loftier cachet)
user: stude62 user talk:stude62 14:12, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
:I've always found marketing (and specifically, design) trends to be particularly interesting. I've been wanting to put together a page on automotive design trends for a while, but I don't really have the reference materials to make it work right—an article describing differing naming conventions used on cars (e.g. the use of numbers vs. names on higher-end marques to shift the focus toward the brand itself) would be really interesting. A discussion of oddities like this one would probably be very appropriate in an article like this. Do note, however, that the Nova connection has been debunked already :) [http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp] Overall, though, I like the idea. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 17:52, 2005 Jan 27
::Milkmandan, are you thinking of an article that describes, say, how car shapes have moved from horseless carriages to more uniform, unified shapes (e.g. minivans), examining the reduction of overhangs, etc.? I would definitely support an automobile design trends page to which we could all contribute. I've noticed the alphanumeric phenomenon, too, especially at Land Rover now. Could this be put on the model and marque page that SFoskett started? Stombs/Stombs 02:36, Jan 29, 2005
:::Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking; and, probably highlighting the major design themes and unusual exceptions during distinct periods. I presume the model&marque page you mentioned is marque; this is what I was thinking it terms of names, although I'm sure we should discuss whether or not to branch it into a new page.
:::In any event, we need to be very careful with references. Any design commentary and critique would have to be referenced in from the outside. I've already noticed that the marque article has an NPOV tag—I suspect the same thing would happen on a design trend page. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 03:03, 2005 Jan 29
Move De Lorean to De Lorean Motor Company?
I've moved all the DMC-12 specific information from the De Lorean page to the De Lorean DMC-12 page. Since all that's left in the De Lorean page is a discussion of the company itself, I think it's appropriate to move it to De Lorean Motor Company, which currently redirects in. I tried to move it over with admin help, but they want a more formal call for votes—please weigh in at Talk:De Lorean if you have a moment. I'd rather this get discussed first within the WikiProject Auto community, as opposed to the Requested moves page. Thanks! Milkmandan/Milkmandan 07:45, 2005 Jan 28
'Bolding' of car model names
I've noticed that in some automobile articles, names of variants of the main model are written in bold (for examples, see Aston Martin V12 Vanquish, Chevrolet Corvette and Honda NSX). The Manual of Style#Sections/Manual of Style says: "If the subject of the article has more than one name, each new form of the name should be in bold on its first appearance.". It seems to me that ''variations'' of the article's subject (here, variations of the main automobile model) shouldn't be bolded, but I wanted to know if anyone else has an opinion on this (or cares ;-)). SamH/SamH/User talk:SamH/Talk 23:33, 30 Jan 2005
:I get the impression this is in response to some of the bolding that I do when grooming pages :) Trying to find information about a specific model can be a real mess when combing through an entire article. I usually bold out the names so it's easy to pick them up when scanning the article. This achieves a different purpose than the Manual of Style entry you linked—emphasis isn't, after all, limited to section titles. Do you know of a Style entry that covers this use more directly? Milkmandan/Milkmandan 23:49, 2005 Jan 30
::I concur - I've been bolding anything important that people might be looking for. So, for example, I bold the main marque and model name, any other model names (especially if they're redirected to the page in question) and any important submodels. If it's got a whole paragraph or more, I bold it. Anyone care to suggest a different style? Sfoskett/SFoskett 00:31, Jan 31, 2005
:::OK. Although I don't use bolding myself, I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other, and it does make sense to emphasise important sub–models. I just thought it would be good to establish a policy about whether or not we should use bolding in this way, so that in future, all auto articles could be standardised. SamH/SamH/User talk:SamH/Talk 11:41, 31 Jan 2005
::::Policy established in the WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions#Names of variants or other models/conventions document. Please change it if I've botched it. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 13:50, 2005 Jan 31
:::::Looks good to me, Milkmandan. I've been doing something along these lines, perhaps subconsciously. Stombs/Stombs 12:23, Feb 3, 2005
"Part of the ''Manufacturer'' automobile series"
I've noticed a bunch of pages (e.g., Jeep Wrangler, Ford Explorer, Mazda RX-7) that use the phrase, ''this article is part of the automobile series'' in the sidebar have the manufucturer crammed in there, too. ''This article is part of the Ford automobile series'' seems a bit forced, considering that we don't really have a manufacturer-specific series and, in any event, the manufacturer is clearly listed at the beginning of the bar.
Does the manufacturer name in the text serve some other purpose? I'd like to see the sidebars generalized. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 16:06, 2005 Feb 3
:As a newbie, I'm not sure if its my place to comment, but it seems excessive. It seems that the people using computers and looking at an automobile article should know what an automobile is in the first place. The simpler, the better. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 18:27, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
::Very good point. I guess that unless we have a page devoted to the ''Automobile Series'', then having that line at all seems unnecessary. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 20:46, 2005 Feb 3
:::Just to clarify, I'm leaning towards using the version without the manufacturer just because it standardizes the sidebars. I suppose this is something to reopen later...probably when we start considering revamping the formats. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 17:33, 2005 Feb 5
:::: Ah... (raises guilty hand) I put it there while creating that box cos one of the other projects (might have been aircraft?) had some text in a similar vein, and I thought the bottom of the box looked a bit incomplete... with hindsight, it was probably a dumb idea. I was intending on just doing some sketching out at the time to get things started, and never really came back to it. I'm awful at biting off more than I can chew :) Akadruid/akaDruid 14:16, 8 Mar 2005
Canadian Marques
I've added in thirty-eight (38) additional marques to the Canadian section of the List of automobile manufacturers page. I have this strange, sudden urge to rush out and buy an Acadian Beaumont ... user: stude62 user talk:stude62 16:41, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
*Milkmandan has been kind of enough to look at the list and fix some links. I'm willing to start on the stubs for the unwritten articles, but I have a question. Since many of these marques have U.S. origins, but many are different enough (trim, body basis, name, no US equivilant, etc.) that they really aren't the same as US models. For example, the De Soto Diplomat was a De Soto in name and trim only (it was actually a Dodge); do I notate on the master De Soto page (De Soto automobile) or does it deserve its own De Soto Canadian page. I would prefer that the model have its own article and then tie back to a blurb on the current De Soto page rather then the other way, which would seem to start another naming convention. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 21:30, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
::Depends entirely on the situation. Here are the three that I can think of (excuse my abuse of the ''Diplomat'' name):
::#If the Diplomat was really just a rebadged Dodge, definitely redirect into the Dodge page and put a note in the introduction paragraph that it's also sold as a De Soto.
::#In the contrary event that the De Soto Diplomat in Canada was a substantially different car than the De Soto Diplomat sold in elsewhere, I'd suggest an article called ''De Soto Diplomat (Canada)'', with a note in the regular De Soto Diplomat page that multiple cars with the Diplomat name existed.
::#If the Diplomat has no non-Canadian equivalent, ''De Soto Diplomat'' will do just fine.
::As far as the De Soto (automobile) page, I'd say to just add information to the existing page until it demands fragmentation. I can see there being significant benefit to splitting regional information of a really long page (such as breaking BMW US out of the regular BMW page), but it'll be a while until that's necessary. Until then, all models worldwide go on the same page.
::Does this answer your question? Milkmandan/Milkmandan 22:00, 2005 Feb 5
Cadillac links
A few weeks ago I noticed a link being dropped into the Cadillac Escalade page. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cadillac_Escalade&diff=9685331&oldid=9680670] It points to a Cadillac picture gallery, but the gallery requires registration to see anything more than thumbnails.
It turns out that these links have been dumped across the Cadillac pages. (Contributions/68.215.43.208, Contributions/65.11.181.194)
There's a quick discussion on the Talk:Cadillac Escalade page about it, and I'd like to suggest that we remove these across all of these pages.
It seems like links are getting dumped inconsistently across most car pages anyway. A set of guidelines of what is appropriate and what isn't seems like a really good idea. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 18:44, 2005 Feb 11
:The limited response I've heard so far is that these links can probably be dumped. I'm going to start removing them in a few days if I don't run across some serious opposition. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 08:11, 2005 Feb 25
FAQ
I've added a WikiProject Automobiles/FAQ/FAQ because it seems like a lot of the same issues come up with new contributors. Any way to make the transition into the Wikipedia easier is, in my mind, a positive thing. The FAQ serves to address questions that are already answered in the other Auto Project (and main Wikipedia) pages, but which aren't immediately accessible due to article size. I think a FAQ would provide a vital first shot at getting the most important information to new WikiGearheads.
I haven't linked it to the main WikiProject Auto page yet because I think the concept needs to be discussed and the page needs to be expanded/edited.
What are your thoughts? Please discuss at the FAQ Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/FAQ/talk. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 20:16, 2005 Feb 26
Featured Article
I'm trying to get Wankel engine to be a featured article. I've been modding it according to the "friendly" suggestions of the folks at Featured article candidates/Wankel engine, but think maybe some help from the folks here might be more useful. Anyone want to take a go at copyediting the History section? Sfoskett/SFoskett 12:57, Feb 28, 2005
:I've got a printout and a red pen that will be heavily employed during my classes today—expect something in a few hours. The first thing I see is the usual Featured Article complaint: references, references, references. In-text cites are your friend! Milkmandan/Milkmandan 16:06, 2005 Feb 28
::One of my favorite authors said that the best way of editing down an article is to try and eliminate all words that end in "ly" and every "very". I don't know if this applies here, but I know I have to do a better job at following it. user: stude62 user talk:stude62 03:04, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
::OK, I'm having a fairly hard time editing this. Generally this means that the paper is either pretty good or I'm just too unfamiliar with the subject material. In this case, I'm thinking it's a bit of both—I have some pretty good rewrites for everything up to the history section (including two paragraphs totally rewritten), but I keep getting stuck at that point. I'll take another stab at it tomorrow after I've gotten some sleep. Milkmandan/Milkmandan 06:56, 2005 Mar 1
Stutz Motor Company
I'm a sucker for weird marques. So I just went through adding lots of info on Stutz. I especially focused on the crazy 1970s cars. Anyone care to add/edit/read? Sfoskett/SFoskett 17:33, Mar 1, 2005
:Popping over there now, SFoskett. Been busy on assignments at work. Like you I like those Exner carsalmost bought the Hot Wheels one when I was a kid. Stombs/Stombs 22:53, Mar 5, 2005
posted @ 9:34 PM
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